Are you a working mom feeling overwhelmed in your corporate role? Get ready to level up your corporate game as we’re hanging out with Sally Ivester, a seasoned pro with 12+ years in big tech. Sally spills the tea on how your mindset and strategy can make or break your career journey.

Join us as we explore the art of “working loudly” (no, not banging on your keyboard!) and discover how to be a joy to work with, even on those groggy days. Sally breaks down the importance of building your brand and reputation, especially when you’re remote, and gives you practical tips to ensure you’re top of mind for all the right reasons.

Grab your favorite drink, get comfy, and tune in for a fun, inspiring chat to help you thrive in your career while navigating the chaos of motherhood!

In this episode, you will hear:

Treat your career like a game—understand the rules and navigate relationships to thrive.
Sharing your achievements to build your brand and stay visible for career growth.
Setting boundaries and staying active in virtual meetings to stay connected.
Consistently delivering and showcasing results is key to building a strong professional reputation.
Establishing a personal user manual can help communicate preferences and boundaries.

This episode is brought to you by:
My free anti-burnout 30-day resource for mompreneurs! Momentum usually comes at the cost of burn-out because what it truly takes to build something upfront is more energy and effort than a lot of us have to spare….which is why….I created this planner.
This mom-friendly planner links your vision to daily actions, helping you stay focused and energized as you build profitable relationships. Whether you want to find a new job, get new clients, or launch up your ultimate podcast while focusing on mission critical consistent action steps each day…starting with a 30-day timeframe…this action tracker and planner was made with YOU in mind. Set yourself up for a successful year and an even bigger one ahead! It also sees to it that you replenish your energy to prevent burnout. ($97 value, helps avoid a $2,400 trip to the ER from exhaustion).

https://bit.ly/imagineaplan

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About Sally Ivester

Sally Ivester is a corporate veteran with over 12 years of experience in Big Tech. After graduating from an Ivy League school, she struggled to navigate the corporate world on her own. As a history enthusiast, she studied the careers of top performers across industries to uncover the strategies that fueled their success. Now, she helps early-career professionals accelerate their growth with the tools and knowledge needed to thrive in today’s competitive workplace.

Quotes, that can change your perspective:

“The corporate job is a game. And you don’t get to choose whether you play it or not. Like if you’re in it, you’re in it. But you do get to choose whether you play it on easy mode or on hard mode.” – Sally Ivester

“Self-awareness begins with, I’m not going to be the smartest. I’m not like, there’s always going to be things that happen.” – Sally Ivester

“The way that I think about work loudly is your work does not speak for itself. You need to tell people what is the value that you’re providing.” – Sally Ivester

“I’m a mom, so think of all the things that other moms do. You might be doing the laundry. You might be thinking about all the things that kids should be eating and like putting together the grocery list in the background. No one’s asking you to do it, right? But you’re doing it because you want to make sure these kids are fed and the family’s fed and everything else.” – Sally Ivester

“The goal is be more present, even though you’re not physically present.” – Sally Ivester

SHARE this episode with your fellow female leaders and empower them to embrace their career journey with confidence! Sally’s insights on “working loudly” and career growth are a must-listen for balancing corporate life or leading a business. Let’s uplift each other!

Supporting Resources:

Website: https://beacons.ai/hisallyivester
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hisallyivester
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/hisallyivester
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hisallyivester

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This holiday season purchase a copy or two of Fertile Imagination, email me your picture (under the tree by the candles) using this email address melissa [at ]melissallarena.com , and then on Christmas day I hope to share these images across my social media. Let’s support the moms we are and love this holiday season!
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About Fertile Imagination
You can be a great mom without giving up, shrinking, or hiding your dreams. There’s flexibility in how you pursue anything – your role, your lifestyle, and your personal and professional goals. The limitations on your dreams are waiting to be shattered. It’s time to see and seize what’s beyond your gaze. Let’s bridge your childhood daydreams with your grown-up realities. Imagine skipping with your kids along any path – you, surpassing your milestones while your kids are reaching theirs. There’s only one superpower versatile enough to stretch your thinking beyond what’s been done before: a Fertile Imagination. It’s like kryptonite for impostor syndrome and feeling stuck when it’s alert!
In Fertile Imagination, you will awaken your sleeping source of creative solutions. If you can wake up a toddler or a groggy middle schooler, then together with the stories in this book – featuring 25 guests from my podcast Unimaginable Wellness, proven tools, and personal anecdotes – we will wake up your former playmate: your imagination!
Advance Praise
“You’ll find reality-based strategies for imagining your own imperfect, fulfilling life in this book!” —MARTHA HENNESSEY, former NH State Senator
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—KEN HONDA, best-selling author of Happy Money
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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Sally: And here’s the biggest mind F, Melissa, which is, I feel as if there’s a lot of just a lot of things that talk about just do the work, right? Like get the results and then you’ll move up. And I think that’s BS and the reason that I think that’s BS is because we now live in a society where you have to work loudly. Where it’s not just about whether you can deliver the results but also, are you a joy to be around? Do you take feedback well? Are you someone who can get negative feedback and then be able to act on that type of feedback?

00:00:33 Melissa: Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub, your weekly podcast to inspire you to dream bigger. Plan out how you’re going to get to that next level in business, find the energy to keep going and make sure your creative juices are flowing so that this way you get what you really want rather than having to settle. Get ready to discover how mom founders have reimagined entrepreneurship and motherhood.

00:00:56 Melissa: Ever wonder how they do it? Tune in to find out. And stretch yourself by also learning from diverse entrepreneurs who might not be moms, but who have lessons you can tailor about how you can disrupt industries and step way outside of your comfort zone. I believe every mom’s superpower is her imagination. In this podcast, I’m gonna give you the mindset, methods, and tools to unleash yours. Sounds good? Then keep listening.

00:01:26 Melissa: Hello there, welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub. This is Melissa Llarena, your hostess with the mostest. It is almost 2025 and chances are you’re either going to pursue a new opportunity professionally or you are going to go for that promotion and I want to help you do either. So I know technically this is a podcast for moms who have their own businesses.

00:01:56 Melissa: But what I also know to be true is that sometimes we need to plug back into corporations to earn more consistent salaries. And I want to be sure that I support you either path you choose in 2025. So today’s guest is bringing wisdom that is modern, it is applicable, and it is going to be useful to any mom in particular who is an independent contributor in an organization or desires to be one, and who also wants to be sure that she is getting credit for her work and is not overlooked for a promotion. I want to also add this point.

00:02:38 Melissa: This conversation is also quite important if you want to do your best to avoid being let go. Again, no guarantees. But what I know for sure is that today’s guest is bringing applicable wisdom that has helped oodles of corporate employees around the world since the beginning of the internet. How do I know this to be true? Because that is what I was doing for about 13 years before I wrote my book, Fertile Imagination, helping corporate individuals, corporateers really navigate the world of job search.

00:03:17 Melissa: So today’s episode is going to be featuring Sally Ivester. She’s a seasoned corporate veteran with over 12 years of experience in big tech. And when I say big tech, we mean big tech. You can absolutely look her up later. After graduating from an Ivy League school, she quickly realized that corporate world is a completely different ball game. Despite her top tier education and high ambitions, she struggled to find her footing and achieve the success she envisioned. And she didn’t have anyone to rely on to teach it to her. Her parents supported her, but they couldn’t advise her. The same can be said in my case as well, and maybe yours too.

00:04:01 Melissa: So absolutely check out the show notes for more details about Sally Ivester. You can look at her website and you can learn more about how she can support you in your career. So today in this conversation, you’re gonna hear a couple of things that are going to be noteworthy. So break out a pen, a pencil, just do the deed because I promise you, this is going to pay off if you are looking to manage your manager ultimately. You’re gonna learn how to play the corporate game.

00:04:32 Melissa: Yes, yes, yes, sometimes the rules change, but ultimately, what has not changed is that you cannot succeed if you only put your head down and work really hard. That is not suffice. You’re also gonna have an opportunity to understand how you can be a joy to work with. And it is so not corny, it is very doable and very authentic, might I add. You’re also gonna learn about working loudly. Now, if you never left corporate America, you probably heard this term.

00:05:05 Melissa: But if it’s been a decade, then I want to just let you know that in this conversation, Sally’s gonna go over what practically working loudly means and it is not banging on a keyboard, which would be hilarious otherwise. Enjoy the conversation if you or a friend is looking to gain new success in corporate America, whether you’re closing your business or you’re keeping it on the side, definitely, definitely listen to this conversation. Again, this is almost the last, well actually no, this is the last episode of 2024.

00:05:44 Melissa: And I wanna be sure that you’re set up for 2025 success. I also wanna say happy fricking new year. I am thrilled that you are here listening to this episode and listening and supporting the Mom Founder Imagination Hub. Again, this one is for you in particular, if you want to make your way back to corporate America or you want to ascend any ladder. So please enjoy the conversation, take notes.

00:06:12 Melissa: This is also brought to you by my 30-day Anti Burnout Action Planner and Tracker. This is going to be in the show notes. You can absolutely just go to the bit.ly link, bit.ly/Imagineaplan and you will be able to track, let’s say you want to pursue a job, trap all your activities for the next 30 days alongside to all the ways that you intend to refill your cup. Here’s what I know to be true. When you are out there pursuing an opportunity, whether it is pursuing a new client relationship or you are trying to launch a podcast or write a book or get a new job, you absolutely need to be mindful of the energy that you put out because you need to refill your cup.

00:07:10 Melissa: Imagine going to a job interview looking thoroughly exhausted. I get it. You might be a mom. That might be your look, your filter. But you have got to be as mindful about the way that you refill your cup. And that is precisely what my 30-day action planner and tracker will help you do. And I made it fun. Why did I make it fun? Because not everything needs to be as hard as we paint it to be. We can actually enjoy the process of putting ourselves out there. Even if it’s terrifying, I promise you that juxtapositioning your job search or your client prospecting or your podcast creation efforts with creative and fun out-of-the-box activities every single day for the next 30 days can make it more bearable.

00:08:03 Melissa: And that is the intention behind my 30-day action planner and tracker. Check out the show notes wherever you’re listening to this conversation. Just click on the bit.ly link. It’s bit.ly/imagineaplan. And it is yours for free for now. Here is the catch, I will be raising the price to $97 because a 30 day plan with this level of focus and effort in and energy in is absolutely not on the market at this moment. And so I wanna be sure that I withhold the value because it is that important and that impactful and fricking fun.

00:08:48 Melissa: So enjoy the conversation. These conversations happen every single Tuesday. This year is going to be an incredible year for both you and for me. Let’s see where the podcast goes. Your guess is not as good as mine. I definitely have a sense of where I’m going with this, but I wanna just give you this idea. Be open to pivots in your life. Be open to finding a way to either work with corporations or working on your own. Be open to having a more career portfolio approach, because I really do think that there’s opportunity in lots of different spaces, not just wherever you’ve been for 13 years or 10 years. I would say right now that is the place where I am.

00:09:35 Melissa: I am currently very open to different opportunities, whether it is engaging with employers or it is engaging with corporations and providing wellness solutions through meditation or it is in supporting clients just like yourself who want to grow their business and want to feel confident selling themselves. So I’m here for it and 2025 is going to be amazing and I wish you the absolute best. Thank you for your support. Share this episode with anyone else that you also imagine might need the insights that Sally has provided. Enjoy the conversation.

00:10:16 Melissa: So Sally, I am so excited to have you on the podcast for a couple of reasons. So it’s kind of like a blast to my past, right? So before I had my podcast, before I was an entrepreneur, I worked in corporations and I noticed, I witnessed the struggle that it is to understand, almost be like a mind reader. It’s kind of like, okay, my boss says that I can rise to leadership within X period of time.

00:10:44 Melissa: He or she’s not making promises, but like, what do I really have to do? So that’s like this big conundrum that a lot of people early in their career, even mid-career professionals and people that are like, not yet to the C-suite, but maybe like VP, SVP, et cetera, they might struggle with. So here you are, Sally, you have a point of view on this topic and you’re a working mom. So we need to understand what does it take to rise to the top and not fall apart on the way there, not abandoning your children and your family and your obligations. Tell us everything you know.

00:11:18 Sally: Yeah, I love it. That is a big, big ask, but I love getting into this stuff because it’s sort of my passion. So sort of as context, I have this full-time job, but I also really care about just helping people figure out how to play the corporate game. The way that I talk about it is really about like, look, the corporate job is a game. And you don’t get to choose whether you play it or not. Like if you’re in it, you’re in it. But you do get to choose whether you play it on easy mode or on hard mode. And easy mode is sort of going into it, understanding what does it mean for me to be successful?

00:11:49 Sally: So what I do is I really help coach individual contributors to figure out like, what does it mean to become a top talent or to get promoted or to do all of that kind of stuff? And here’s the biggest mind F, Melissa, which is I feel as if there’s a lot of just a lot of things that talk about just do the work, right? Like get the results and then you’ll move up. And I think that’s BS. And the reason I think that’s BS is because we now live in this society where you have to work loudly, where it’s not just about whether you can deliver the results, but also are you a joy to be around?

00:12:22 Sally: Do you take feedback well? Like are you someone who can get negative feedback and then be able to act on that type of feedback? Are you someone who can manage your manager, who by the way, is the most important person in your corporate career. And I gotta tell you, a lot of people don’t talk about that kind of stuff. They focus only on the actual project that you’re on or the results that you’re trying to deliver. And I think that’s a mess because it’s sort of this whole package and some of that package is invisible.

00:12:49 Sally: And the reason I talk a lot about this kind of stuff too is like, I had to figure it out on my own. I figured out how to get into a really good college and you would imagine going to this good college would prepare me to figure out how to succeed in the corporate world, but I feel like it didn’t. I went in a little bit blind, and then when I was in actual working, I come from an immigrant background, I had no one to rely on. I just sort of wanted people to tell me what to say and what to do.

00:13:16 Sally: I faced things that I had no idea how to handle, how to manage your manager, how to talk about your work, how to fight for projects, and that’s a type of stuff where I had nowhere to go. So I just ended up creating what I couldn’t find. And that’s like what provides me so much joy is being able to help people with that. And what I would love to do is teach my four and a half year old and my two year old how to manage that kind of stuff too. So it’s all sort of a balance as it relates to the corporate job and working and figuring out how to be like top talent.

00:13:46 Sally: But there’s just a lot of stuff out there that people don’t talk about. And I’m here to stop gatekeeping and let’s get into it and let’s also be tangible. No one wants theory. I think theory is totally outdated, right? Like people wanna know literally what’s step one, what’s step two, what do I say? And that’s really what I would love to help people with too. Long-winded answer, Melissa.

00:14:09 Melissa: That’s okay, we have time. We have time, we’re moms, you know, we have a lot on our mind, gotta articulate it all. And I’m sure people are taking notes or at minimum saying, oh my God, let me listen a little more closely because Sally’s gonna tell me something that I’m gonna have to do the next time I go to work. So here’s a big question, because you said individual contributors. I’m going to ask you something that’s so off the wall, but it’s not, but I figured I’d just pretend it was.

00:14:35 Melissa: Must you be a people leader to ascend to leadership in an organization, or can an individual and independent, however you want to define the I, contributor, ascend to leadership in his or her own way? I got to ask because I would much rather be a loner personally, but that’s just me.

00:14:57 Sally: I think it’s really depends on your role. So I’m in tech, so I’m a little biased because I have like sort of this tech background. I think if you’re on the tech side, right? Like if you’re an engineer, that is more likely a path where you could be an individual contributor director. VP, I feel like you can’t be because it all becomes like how much value you can provide. And as a software engineer with coding and all the things, I think that’s an area where that makes a lot of sense.

00:15:24 Sally: And honestly, you see it. But you don’t see it as much is on more of the business side, right? Like you don’t see a lot of sales directors being a director if they don’t have a large team. You don’t see a lot of marketing directors, so on and so forth. You need a team in order for you to grow. And that’s sort of my own spiky point of view. And the reason I think that way, Melissa, it becomes like how much value can you provide? And you know, when you have a team, you ultimately can provide more value because you just have more manpower to put towards projects. You can have a bigger scope.

00:15:55 Sally: I talk about it about the pie, right? How big is your slice of the pie? Or heck, do you even have another pie? You have two different pies. That’s much more achievable when you have people reporting through you. It’s not as achievable if you’re one person. And so that’s at least the way that I’m thinking in terms of whether or not you could be successful or rise to the top based off of, are you an individual contributor or are you someone who’s more of a people manager?

00:16:25 Melissa: Yeah, it’s so interesting. I remember, and I know this is like, okay, when I was a little girl, I remember my dad being like Mr. Sales Guy. He would sell wines and spirits. And he made that change from being an individual contributor to being a people leader in sales. And he hated every single second of it. Like he was just like, how about no, how about I just wanna go out and like sell on my own, make my numbers, but like this whole people relationship thing was like, it’s just was not in his DNA.

00:16:57 Melissa: And so I feel like that’s still really, really important irrespective of how you contribute to an organization. So you’re a joy to work with. Please tell me more about that. And I’m coming at it from such a cynical perspective. I’m like, okay, if I’m a working mom in a big organization and I had a bad day, I can’t promise the world I’m gonna be a joy to work with, but I could be trained really well. So help us see the light there. Can we be joys even if we’re like tired and groggy?

00:17:26 Sally: Yeah, totally. Well, let me talk a little bit about your dad, right? And like him hating this kind of stuff. I would actually say that’s why it’s even more important to be a better individual contributor. Because for managers, that life, it’s hard. You get paid the same amount probably as other people who might be at your level, who are just individual contributors. It’s not like you’re a manager and you get paid way more. But you have a ton more that you have to handle, right? You have to now deal with five different peoples. Yeah, totally. And you have to figure out the emotional capacity. Like you have to think about them as humans.

00:18:00 Sally: And look, I totally, I think all of that’s important, but that doesn’t mean it’s not like sometimes a tax or it sort of adds on to all the things that you have to think about, then you also think about their career, in addition to your career. You have to think about their performance, you have to think about their rating, how much money they should be making, all that stuff. That’s hard. So dang easy for your manager to manage you.

00:18:21 Sally: And I think that’s also where being a joy to be around comes in. It is crazy how many people come into a corporate job where they may not have a positive attitude, right, where they’re a little bit like, well, it was a bad day, I didn’t hit my numbers and like it sucks. And I call them a little bit of Eeyore, right? And no one wants to be around an Eeyore. It’s just sort of a psychological thing. Like you wanna be around happy people. Because happy people, yeah, like they’ve raised the room, they like they, they’re people that you wanna be around.

00:18:52 Sally: And like, and honestly, it’s sort of a drainer to be around people who are like, oh, this happened and this happened. Like, trust me, there’s a lot of stuff that’s gonna happen in a corporate job or even like being a mom, you can either be drained by it or you can like try to look at the bright side of things. And so when I talk about being a joy to be around, it’s like, what’s your attitude? You know, like what’s your attitude? Are you someone who shumbles up as positive, as like asking people, hey, Melissa, how was your day? How was your morning? Happy hump day, right? Like whatever it is that you’re saying.

00:19:21 Sally: But these are the types of things that sort of stack up and you can be like, that’s so tactical. But you know what? A lot of the corporate job, especially the soft skills side of things, it comes down to the tactics. It comes down to how do you make people feel? How do you show up? And those are the things, quite honestly, that are in your control. So when I talk about what does it mean to do all these different things, to stand out as top talent, I’m not talking about you can mind control your manager or you can manifest a promotion. I’m talking about things that are within your control that you can do.

00:19:55 Sally: And the things that you can do are things like have a positive attitude. When something goes wrong, what is your mindset towards that? And then that really, that starts to build your brand. And when you have a big brand like that, someone who can roll with the punches, someone who can take on challenges and be okay when things don’t go right, you get more of those types of opportunities down the line. And so this is the ripple effect that happens.

00:20:19 Sally: But like going back to your original question, I’d say like being a joy around is like, the first question is, what’s your take on like how you show up? When challenges happen or challenges show up, are you someone who can take them or are you someone who sort of is like, it ruined my day, you know, and it makes you like puts you in a bad mood and things like that. That stuff you can’t manufacture. And that’s the type of stuff that I want you to think about because it’s how people perceive you before you even say one word. And that’s what it means ultimately to be a joy around.

00:20:51 Melissa: So it sounds like you need to have an insane amount of self-awareness. So how do you build that muscle?

00:20:59 Sally: That’s a good point. Like the self-awareness piece, I never really thought about before that way, but you’re right, I do think it requires a self-awareness. You know, part of it is gonna be just something that you learn on the job. But I think the other part of it is understanding that you’re gonna be doing things wrong. You’re not gonna come in at the age of 22, 30, whatever it is, knowing all the answers, right?

00:21:20 Sally: So if you come in saying, Melissa, this is my work, I don’t want any feedback, like here we go. You are immediately putting yourself into a bad situation. Self-awareness is about, I’m not going to be the smartest person. Even if I went to Harvard, even if I went to Stanford, I always, there will always be feedback that comes, especially from people who are more senior, not because the work isn’t good, but they may have context that you don’t have, right? Because they see it at like a 30,000 foot view versus your view, which might be 5,000.

00:21:47 Sally: And so self-awareness begins with, I’m not going to be the smartest. I’m not like, there’s always going to be things that happen. I use the mantra B plus is the new A plus. And by thinking, hey, you know what? There’s gonna be feedback that comes that immediately builds your self-awareness because you’re asking for it. It’s not about like, oh, it’s gonna come maybe once a quarter during a performance review.

00:22:10 Sally: It’s gonna come because when I show you work, Melissa, you’re probably gonna give me thoughts and I’m gonna proactively say, hey, I would love to get your perspective because you can see things at a different level and because you’ve been here longer or whatever it would be, you have a specific expertise. Would love to get your perspective on how to make this better. That’s you being self-aware. And I think that starts with number one. Know that you’re not gonna be the best ever. There’s always room to improve. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to be the gold standard, but there’s always room for you to constantly get better. So I think that’s step number one.

00:22:40 Sally: Step number two, I’d say, is how do you take feedback? Feedback is gonna come. Melissa, you worked in a corporate job. You can’t get rid of feedback, right? Like it comes all the time and it comes because you get a performance rating, sometimes once a year, sometimes twice a year. And the performance rating is something that just happens. It’s like the corporate way of just saying, how are you doing in a really scalable, easy way across like thousands of employees? So when you get this review, are you someone who fights the feedback that you get, or are you someone who accepts it and then asks, how do you do better? That’s the second piece.

00:23:15 Sally: How do you act when things are coming at you, especially from an actual feedback perspective of what you need to do in order for you to flex, to either get to the next level or get the top rating or anything like that. So I would say you would start off with those two specific things to just really build that self-awareness muscle. And then, you know, it gets stronger. The other thing I’d say is be a mom. You become, right? Like you become so self-aware of the way that you act because your kids are gonna tell you all this stuff. That was stupid. I hate your food. You know, you do all this kind of stuff.

00:23:44 Melissa: They don’t mince words.

00:23:47 Sally: Right, exactly. They don’t mince words whatsoever.

00:23:49 Melissa: That is true. I would say that, yeah, my kids provide the most honest feedback that I never wanted to hear in my life. I mean, if I get my hair done just today, I went to pick them up. I’m in a curly do right now. And like both of my twins are like, oh, we need to give you our point of view. I wasn’t asking. I wasn’t asking. But one is like, it doesn’t even look like you. And the other one’s like, oh, I liked it better the other way. It’s like, thanks, thanks. I feed you, I clothe you. You would think that you would just lie to me, but no, we’re not there yet.

00:24:23 Melissa: So, okay, Joy, work loudly. So obviously I’m thinking to myself of like an obnoxious coworker in an open work environment that’s just tapping their keyboard obnoxiously loudly. Now, I love adverbs, so shout out too loudly, that’s amazing. I’ve heard it before. And I’m super curious to hear what you mean by work loudly. And maybe even in the context of, was this like the norm? Was your family ever saying like, oh, make sure people know that you’re working really, really hard or maybe they were humble? I don’t know, what’s work loudly?

00:25:03 Sally: Yeah, absolutely. So let me start off with the definition and I wanna talk about how it shows up at work. And then also like how we even, how we act with our partners, right? Or with our kids and how we can bring work loudly sort of into like the, into the family. Work loudly is something that a lot of people say. Courtney Johnson’s a TikTok creator who also talks about it. The way that I think about work loudly is your work does not speak for itself. You need to tell people what is the value that you’re providing.

00:25:26 Sally: Now, I think there is one thing that you should notice in what I’m saying. What is the value you’re providing? It doesn’t work if you’re not providing value, right? It doesn’t work if you haven’t driven results. It only works when you have delivered something and you wanna make sure other people see it. And that’s the ultimate premise. How it shows up could be, you asked to present in a team meeting and you talk about what is a project that I led, what are the results that we’ve received, and then what are the next steps.

00:25:55 Sally: It could be in a one-pager summarizing all of the resources that you’ve put together or like sort of your quick wins that people can quickly reference. And if they wanna steal anything that you’ve done, they can take it too. These are all different ways for you to actually show up and execute on working loudly, but it’s so important for you to talk about your work because we don’t live in an environment now where we just get promoted, you know, no matter what. Like in our parents’ generation, it might be you work a long corporate career and then you’re gonna get a pension and like you slowly go up the corporate ladder.

00:26:26 Sally: That doesn’t exist today. There’s so many qualified people. There’s AI now, there’s so much stuff going on. And so it’s all about how are you making sure that people see the value that you’re providing to the company? And it’s all about making sure people see what you’re doing. And then when they go, oh crap, look at Melissa, look at what she’s providing. That then builds your reputation. And it builds your reputation to the point where when new projects come down the line, they think of you, Melissa, because you just launched a project with XYZ person.

00:26:59 Sally: So they’re like, I have something similar coming down the line. How do I make sure that I put someone on it? Oh yeah, Melissa just talked about it. So then therefore I’m gonna sign her. So it has a few different purposes. One, people know about your actual results. It keeps you top of mind. And when you’re top of mind, when new things come down the line, they’re gonna remember you. And I think the third thing is, is that like, it’s a great way for you to remember what is the value that you’re providing, because you’re gonna have crap days. And on those crap days, you have to remember some of the accomplishments that you had. Now that’s in the corporate job.

00:27:29 Sally: Working loudly also works, I would say, with your partner at home, with your kids or anything, right? Think of all the things—I’m a mom, so think of all the things that other moms do. You might be doing the laundry. You might be thinking about all the things that kids should be eating and like putting together the grocery list in the background. No one’s asking you to do it, right? But you’re doing it because you want to make sure these kids are fed and the family’s fed and everything else.

00:27:53 Sally: But if you continue doing it, I think people can take advantage of you. Not in a bad way, but it’s like, oh, it’s just a grant. I’m taking for granted that Sal is gonna be thinking about this or Melissa is gonna make sure that there’s dinner seven days a week. But when you say, hey, these are the meals that I’ve made. Right, like we’d love to get the feedback on like these different meals that I’m making. Like this is the list that I put together already for the groceries, like anything you wanna add on. Like that is you working loudly at home too.

00:28:18 Sally: And it showcases and it signals, hey, look at all the cool things that mom is doing. And then when new things come down the line, maybe your kids go to school, someone else’s house, hey, this person made something great. Like, mom, can we do it too? That builds your brand, right? It builds your reputation. I’m totally talking about cooking right now, but these are the types of things that I think allow you to broaden your horizon too when it comes to working loudly. You’re not doing it just silently, like cooking, putting together like a grocery list.

00:28:44 Sally: Now people are coming to you thinking about, hey, can we do like Jell-O ghosts for Halloween, right? Like thinking of new ideas, attributing it to you because you’re putting together the grocery list and then it broadens your horizon of like all these other things that you could be doing too. So that would be how I’m thinking about working loudly both in terms of like a corporate sense but also even like within the job, within the family and like how you can execute it with your partner and your kids.

00:29:10 Melissa: I love this concept. A couple of ideas are popping up in my mind. So one is kind of like a mental mind map of sorts where you’re like, in the center and then you have all these little words that once that word pops up, think of Sally or Melissa. Once that other word pops up, think of Sally or Melissa, right? And so what I’m noticing also is that you keep saying brand and reputation. Here’s a question I have for you because this is something that’s a little bit more modern world. So, okay, someone like a mom decided to work for a big organization and she wanted to do it remotely.

00:29:48 Melissa: How can you build a brand and have a reputation such that people are thinking about you and you’re not physically in the room? And is there anything tangible that someone can do? Like I’m straight up thinking, you know, maybe my Zoom name has some branding in it. Maybe, you know, every time we show up, you have a background, but like what are things that a working mom who chose remote but still wants to go up the ladder as an independent contributor and only shows up virtually, what can she do to brand herself and show her reputation, you know, is consistent and people know she exists.

00:30:23 Sally: Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I would do to start off is you should have your own personal user manual, right? Like your operating system. I have one and it says that I prefer emails over pings, right? Or like I prefer 15 minute meetings over like 30 minute meetings. Or these are my working hours, right? And whatever that would be. This kind of stuff is a great way to signal to people proactively. How can you communicate with me? And it’s a PDF or like for me, it’s a Google doc of all the different things of how to work best with me. And it’s like LinkedIn, my email signature as an example.

00:30:58 Sally: And it immediately builds the brand of like, hey, you know what? Sally’s like sort of on it. Like she prefers emails over paying. She’s telling me how she wants to communicate. And it’s cool that she has these boundaries where she’s like, I work four to five or whatever the hours would be eight to four or eight to five. So that would be one thing I would do.

00:31:15 Sally: The second thing I would do is I would really think about showing up to any type of event that your team would have, right? And that could be a team meeting, that could be your, like a virtual coffee chat that people may have, it could be like a learning session that teams have. If you’re in a corporate job, there are so many different ways that people interact with one another.

00:31:36 Sally: Nowadays they do like virtual lunch and learns just because there are so many people who may not be remote but they sit in different offices. And so like they want to be just connected to one another. I would make sure you’re there. Don’t listen to a recording, make sure you’re there live because you want people to be familiar with you and you also want to be able to understand what’s the vibe of like my new coworkers, right?

00:31:58 Sally: Like this person may not be the boss, but it seems like we’re constantly asking that person for their opinion. So like you want to sort of figure out and get a feel for how are people interacting with one another. That would be like how I started to think about it. Now, the third thing I think that’s super crucial is like, you gotta be able to deliver on your projects. That’s like the bare minimum, right? Like deliver on what it is that you think you’re gonna do.
And this is the area where working loudly becomes important. If there’s a team meeting where people talk about their work, could you raise your hand? Could you say, I would love to proactively talk about what it is that I’m working on. It’ll probably be 10 minutes and I can walk them through X, Y, and Z. You need to find opportunities where people can get to know you because you’re not naturally sitting with someone where you could just be going to get a coffee together, right? Or you’re sitting next to one another and you’re walking to a team meeting together.

00:32:46 Sally: You don’t have those natural opportunities where you sort of need to find different ways to make that happen. The other tactical tip that I give to people is just be available on Slack, right? Like have your green button on because if people wanna ping you, you don’t want it there to be a long lag before you respond back. You wanna be able to be there, to be seen. And that’s a great way for people to quickly chat with you and then maybe jump on a video call or like to get your perspective.

00:33:12 Sally: So those are different ways that I would thinking about, especially as a remote mom of what are the things that you can do within your power to sort of set you up for success. Now, as you get more into it, there are new things that you can do. I call it the extra credit, where it’s like maybe there are extra opportunities that you would wanna take on. Or maybe you have a specific skill in something and you could teach a quick lightning lesson in that.

00:33:35 Sally: Like different ways to then showcase who you are outside of maybe just the job that you have. And that also builds your reputation. And I would say the last thing, but probably the foundation of all of this is that you gotta be sort of a kind person, right? Like you don’t wanna come in thinking that you have all the answers that you’re not gonna learn from anyone else. You wanna come in ready to listen, ready to see how things work before you just completely tell them what your perspective is and what you think, because you don’t know what the dynamics are. And so if you come in with that positive attitude, being kind, knowing that things are going to be different, I think that sets you up for success.

00:34:10 Melissa: Yeah. And I love that the whole like, oh, this is how to best work with me. I think that’s important. That’s like boundaries, too, you know, especially if you are a working mom and then you’re in a different time zone and it’s like, hey, yo, I’ll be up at 4am. But, you know, cut me some slack. Don’t reach out to me at 11pm, you know.

00:34:30 Sally: Totally, totally. The other thing I’d say is make sure you get your optics right. As an example, if you’re going to have a one-on-one with your manager, send a pre-read of the actual agenda 24 hours beforehand. And then after the actual meeting, send a post email, post recap, these are the things that we discussed. That kind of stuff, because you’re virtual, it keeps you sort of top of mind for people. Some people, regardless of how senior they are, they still send like a Friday recap email. Top three things I did this week and the top three things I’m gonna do next week.

00:35:01 Sally: These are all different tactics that you can leverage. You can think about, you know, whatever works best for you. But the goal is be more present, even though you’re not physically present. And so whether that’s being available on ping or sending emails as a way or Slack chats, you just keep people up to date. Or honestly, you know what someone does is they sometimes send like in their team chat, a little meme, something funny, happy hub day. You put it in like a camel, right?

00:35:24 Sally: Those are additional ways to sort of like stay top of mind. If you go an entire week without doing one of those things, people are gonna forget about you, especially because you’re remote. And so you wanna find different ways to show up, either on the daily or within like two days or something, where people can keep you top of mind because that’s gonna be a great way to trigger that physical presence, even though you’re not physically present.

00:35:47 Melissa: Yeah. And it also creates a bit of a ritual for the person on the receiving end. It’s like, oh, every Tuesday I’m going to see that meme and I’m going to have some positive, what is it, endorphins or whatever coming through them to chuckle. And then I’m going to be like, oh, Sally makes me chuckle. So let me, you know, make sure that I totally loop. It’s just like podcasting, too. It’s like, all right, every Tuesday, 5 AM. I’m going to hear, you know, Melissa’s voice and she’s going to have someone brilliant. And here we have Sally. So it’s so cool.

00:36:16 Melissa: I think you offer a lot of tactical wisdom. And I know that for a lot of working moms, the choice to go remote was not necessarily like, oh, I’m trying to really shrink my odds of success in my career. Like, I never wanna go up the ladder. I just wanna stay here forever. And just, you know, like that’s not the intention so much. It’s more like, okay, how can I figure this really complex ever moving life moment right as a mom and then also working for someone else.

00:36:47 Melissa: So okay, so now we have all these tips we have all this wisdom. So I know right now like anyone listening is like, oh my God. I love Sally. I want more of her. So where can people find you, learn more about you and just yeah have access to all your wisdom.

00:37:03 Sally: I love that and just so you know to Melissa I am remote too, and I’m a chief of staff and I work in big tech and I tell you it’s not the easiest setup to be remote and to do this kind of thing. I gotta do it for personal reasons, but it is one where you’re constantly thinking about what can I do? Because I’m not physically there, so what can I do to sort of make myself physically there even though it’s not possible. But thank you for having me. You can find me at hisallyIvester.com. So H-I-S-A-L-L-Y, I-V-E-S-T-E-R.com, or email me at hisallyivester@gmail.com.

00:37:37 Sally: And there you’re going to find a link to my course, but also free resources. I have a free career starter pack checklist, which covers the top things that you should do to sort of set yourself up for success within the first few weeks. You have different things on there like my project tracker, which helps you work loudly in a way that’s not obnoxious, right? Like nothing about this is gonna give you the ick. It’s all about you, you’re doing the work. You might as well get the credit and how do we figure out a great way to showcase that credit? But those are all the things that you can rely on me for. And I loved being able to go through some of this type of stuff, because it’s really my passion.

00:38:11 Melissa: Love it, Sally. Thank you so much for this conversation. Oh my goodness. Have the best day. May your children just surprise you with, like, I don’t know, chocolate and hugs or something, right? Like don’t we all want some goodness in our life? So thank you so much, Sally. Have an awesome rest of your day. Thank you again.

00:38:30 Sally: Thank you so much for having me. And I can’t wait to do this again. Thank you, Melissa.

00:38:34 Melissa: I really adored this conversation because if you truly take to heart what Sally shared with you, you will 100% be building your brand in an organization brick by brick. First of all, this idea of being a joy to work with, it’s the same test consultants have been putting out there since the beginning of time, which is if we’re stuck in an elevator, is this person gonna be someone that I would like to grab a beer with? Are they cool? Like, are you cool? If you’re a cool person, then do not hesitate to express your coolness in the world of work, even if it is in Zoom.

00:39:13 Melissa: The second point in terms of playing the corporate game and being aware that it is a game, I think I’m going to bring a little bit of Seth Godin into this conversation. So Seth Godin wrote a book called This is Strategy. And in that book, he definitely speaks about systems. And I kind of think that a game is a system. And I think it’s important for you to understand what the rules are really contingent on your employer, your manager. And Sally mentioned how important your direct manager is to your career.

00:39:44 Melissa: So understand what your manager is going after, because it might be different than what someone else’s manager is going after. So you wanna be playing the rules and you wanna understand what it takes to win for that direct leader. Third point, when it comes to working loudly, I think this is something that I have heard from a lot of individuals throughout the last 13 years that I’ve coached individuals. They have these amazing wins, but they did not practically articulate what their wins were during these morning coffee meetings or chats.

00:40:22 Melissa: I think you’re doing a disservice to yourself because if you’re going to be doing something and you actually are bringing value to an organization and you’re not expressing this, then the onus is on you for not being picked for a promotion. And I know that’s tough talk, but I want to just say right now, work louder. That’s all I have to say.

00:40:45 Melissa: And so, yes, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Share it with someone that is looking to ascend a ladder in 2025 or find a new opportunity and establish themselves in a very solid foundation at a new organization. So enjoy the conversation. Thank you again for your support. Happy 2025. Have the best one.