In this episode, we dive deep into the secrets of a balanced, harmonious family life with our special guest, Tami Hackbarth. Tami introduces us to the Fair Play method, inspired by Eve Rodsky’s transformative book “Fair Play,” offering practical strategies to manage household duties equitably and ease the mental load, especially during the chaotic summer months.

Join us as Tami shares her powerful journey from burnout to well-being through guilt-free self-care practices like regular exercise, meditation, and setting healthy boundaries. Learn how these changes not only improved her personal well-being but also had a profound impact on her professional life and those around her. Explore the dynamics of implementing the Fair Play method within relationships and family structures through Tami’s real-life examples, from managing summer activities to everyday chores. 

In this episode, you will hear:

• Importance of equitable distribution of household duties.
• Strategies to manage household logistics for a balanced environment.
• Setting healthy boundaries and prioritizing self-care.
• The concept of domestic labor and its unequal distribution.
• Encouraging partners to take initiative in household management.
• Dividing tasks and involving children in decision-making.
• Open communication about household responsibilities.

This episode is brought to you by Fertile Imagination: A Guide For Stretching Every Mom’s Superpower For Maximum Impact – My book is now available on Amazon in its paperback version and Kindle format. Grab a free chapter on www.fertileideas.com.

DM me on Instagram @melissallarena just type the word FERTILE and I’ll share the link if that’s easier to get to fertileideas.com for all the details you need to celebrate your own Fertile Imagination! Here’s that link: https://www.instagram.com/melissallarena/ 

About Tami Hackbarth:

Tami Hackbarth is a dedicated advocate for equitable household management and guilt-free self-care. Tami Hackbarth is a life+work coach, speaker, author, podcast host and Fair Play Facilitator. She works with people who want to get their time and energy back so they can create the world they want to live in.

Tami began her career working in politics after graduating from UC Davis. In her mid 30 s, she began her second career as an elementary school teacher. It was in her work as a teacher, she found herself physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted. These were the beginning signs of burnout. 

In response, Tami began practicing 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care. It completely changed her life – in and out of the classroom.

Now Tami dedicates her work as a Life+Work Coach to helping others change their lives through 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care and the Fair Play Method. 

She is a certified Life+Work Coach through UC Davis Continuing and Professional Education, a Fair Play Facilitator through the Fair Play Policy Institute, coaches professionals privately all over the country and through her group coaching program Deferred Maintenance.

You can find Tami on LinkedIn, Instagram and on her podcast – 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care. Her book The Essential Guide to 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care is available nationwide.

Quotes, that can change your perspective:

“And it was this pattern and I kept thinking, is my life going to be a series of work myself until I can’t work and then get up and then sort of stumble through that? And the answer was yes, unless I did something different.” – Tami Hackbarth

“If I slept eight hours a night, what would change? If I made home-cooked meals, what would change? If I meditated, what would change? And I took on this giant experiment. And I’m happy to report that when I took on all of the things that are constantly recommended, I felt so much better. And when I felt so much better, my work was so much better.” – Tami Hackbarth

“Fair Play is all about rebalancing the domestic labor in your home. And we do it through communication and using these cards and this idea that we work together as a team to tackle the house rather than us fighting each other about the things that aren’t being done or are only being done by one person. “  – Tami Hackbarth

“What was that one that clogged up the septic system? Where can I get toilet paper for this? What do they do about it? It’s the stuff that keeps you up in the middle of the night. It’s not just about toilet paper. It’s the thoughts about the toilet paper, which are leaving you with decision fatigue. It’s the thing that’s overwhelming you.” – Tami Hackbarth

SHARE this episode and learn practical strategies to manage household duties, especially during those hectic summer months! Don’t miss out on actionable insights and real-life examples that can help you reimagine household logistics, involve children in chores, and achieve a more serene home life. Tune in now and start transforming your family life today!

Supporting Resources:

Website: https://www.tamihackbarth.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamihackbarth/

Facebook Group: 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care with Tami Hackbarth:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2177785292479371/

Claim Your Self-Care Planner & Assessment here: 

https://www.tamihackbarth.com/click-me

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About Fertile Imagination – www.fertileideas.com

You can be a great mom without giving up, shrinking, or hiding your dreams. There’s flexibility in how you pursue anything – your role, your lifestyle, and your personal and professional goals. The limitations on your dreams are waiting to be shattered. It’s time to see and seize what’s beyond your gaze. Let’s bridge your childhood daydreams with your grown-up realities. Imagine skipping with your kids along any path – you, surpassing your milestones while your kids are reaching theirs. There’s only one superpower versatile enough to stretch your thinking beyond what’s been done before: a Fertile Imagination. It’s like kryptonite for impostor syndrome and feeling stuck when it’s alert!

In Fertile Imagination, you will awaken your sleeping source of creative solutions. If you can wake up a toddler or a groggy middle schooler, then together with the stories in this book – featuring 25 guests from my podcast Unimaginable Wellness, proven tools, and personal anecdotes – we will wake up your former playmate: your imagination!

Advance Praise

“You’ll find reality-based strategies for imagining your own imperfect, fulfilling life in this book!” —MARTHA HENNESSEY, former NH State Senator

“Melissa invites the reader into a personal and deep journey about topics that are crucially important to uncover what would make a mom (and dad too) truly happy to work on…even after the kids are in bed.”

—KEN HONDA, best-selling author of Happy Money

“This book is a great purchase for moms in every stage of life. Melissa is like a great friend, honest and wise and funny, telling you about her life and asking you to reflect on yours.” —MAUREEN TURNER CAREY, librarian in Austin, TX

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 Melissa: Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub, your weekly podcast to inspire you to dream bigger. Plan out how you’re going to get to that next level in business, find the energy to keep going, and make sure your creative juices are flowing so that this way you get what you really want rather than having to settle. Get ready to discover how mom founders have reimagined entrepreneurship and motherhood. Ever wonder how they do it? Tune in to find out and stretch yourself by also learning from diverse entrepreneurs who might not be moms, but who have lessons you can tailor about how you can disrupt industries and step way outside of your comfort zone. I believe every mom’s superpower is her imagination. In this podcast, I’m going to give you the mindset, methods, and tools to unleash yours. Sounds good? Then keep listening.

00:00:54 Melissa: 100% guilt free self care for Mom Founders. Today’s episode is with Tammy Hackbar. And I am delighted to have her. I met her at Mom 2.0. This was early on in Tennessee. And she is fairly incredible and very much about fair play and equity. So it’s appropriate that we are having her today because I would say that the summer season, if it’s anything like mine, it feels really unstructured and almost like my calendar is gonna explode at the seams. So take notes, this is gonna be a great one, it’s gonna be perfect for you and your family, especially if you’ve ever felt like things are a little unfair in terms of invisible work, in terms of things that no one else knows, but only you do, this is for you. 

00:01:44 Melissa: Now, if you want to ever think about this summer and find a way to escape your house, and go and get that 100% guilt-free self-care, I would say that’s just like next level stuff. That’s like how we thrive. And I think it is so urgent for you to really consider that that might be possible for you, even in the midst of a busy summer season. Now, this conversation I had originally intended to share with the world on Mother’s Day, but I thought that the summer would be even more appropriate because our schedules have already changed, logistics have already been ironed out, or you need to figure them out going forward. So why not use this moment of change and transition to reimagine how things get done in your house every single time that there is a break.

00:02:35 Melissa: And Tami does a wonderful job in really helping us better understand something that’s called the Fair Play Method. It’s a method that promotes equitable distribution of household duties and tasks, and it helps alleviate your mental load. So in this conversation, Tammy explains very practical steps and she elaborates how this method works. What I also wanted to say, in addition to just how the method works, she also talked about how you can start having this conversation, even if your partner has no idea where you’re coming from, and you might be hitting that person from left field, saying that all of a sudden you want them to chip in and do their part, and this is why. 

00:03:23 Melissa: So I think this is almost like an introductory conversation to reclaiming yourself, your sense of sanity over the summer, especially if you already feel that it’s been rough, like a very rough moment where you have tried to figure out all the summer camp situations and it’s just not working. So I don’t want you to break and that is also why I decided to hold off on this episode until the summer season so that this way you have an opportunity to really reimagine what’s possible for you. 

00:03:54 Melissa: And this idea about Fair Play, it actually comes from a book written by Eve Rodsky and it’s called Fair Play, a game-changing solution for when you have too much to do and more life to live. I mean, can we just say an amen? I think a lot of us are in that space. And again, the summer season is where things can just go bat something crazy, but I don’t want you to go bat something crazy. So check out Tammy and also be sure that you check out some of her examples of how things can be a lot more equitable, both at home, in life, and in society. 

00:04:33 Melissa: This is a pleasure and I really look forward to hearing what you think about this conversation. So reach out to me on Instagram @MelissaLlarena and let me know what you think about it. In the meantime, this episode is brought to you by my book, Fertile Imagination. Here’s the thing, I would say that Tammy definitely exhibits having a fertile imagination. What does that mean? So in my past, I have not seen a lot of moms say to their partners that they should be doing household duties. Like I had never seen that. I grew up in a, you know, Latina household. I remember Saturday mornings wearing a handkerchief so the sweat didn’t die from the chemicals and cleaning the house. And it was just me and my mom doing that. No one else needed to chip in. 

00:05:20 Melissa: And on that note, it’s something that is foreign to me and something that is definitely more creative and inventive than prior generations have ever asked of their partners. And that is why Tami  as a fertile imagination because a fertile imagination is one where it gets you thinking beyond things that you’ve ever seen before in the history of your family and maybe even around people that you hang out with. And Tammy has figured this out. I mean, you will absolutely hear how summer camp has been worked out in her home.

00:05:54 Melissa: You will absolutely hear that it might find, it might be totally different than you handled summer camp logistics, but at the same time, it might inspire you. And Tammy doesn’t leave us hanging. She gives us the next step. She gives us a to-do. So you wanna be sure that you capture that at the end. Enjoy the conversation. 

00:64:12 Melissa: If you’re curious about my book, Fertile Imagination, here’s the thing. So the same way that Tammy is all about 100% guilt-free self-care, in my book, Fertile Imagination, I’m all about making sure that you take care of yourself before you break, before you get to that place like I was at one time where I had pneumonia because I was so not doing any self care. Forget about being 100% guilt free. I didn’t even have guilty self care. And in the book, I talk about it in a chapter where it also featured a DJ who was in her fifties who also dropped the ball when it came to self care.

00:06:50 Melissa: And I would say that that chapter has inspired so many of my readers. And I encourage you to grab a free sample of my book, Fertile Imagination, so that you get going on your journey in terms of figuring out how you might start doing things in your house differently than you may have ever seen another mom before in the history of time. So go to fertileideas.com. fertileideas.com. I’m so excited about this. My book is all about stretching your imagination. My book is about the fact that it is a superpower, but here’s the trick, you need to actually wake it up because a lot of us, our imagination has been sleeping. 

00:07:28 Melissa: I know you didn’t realize that, you might feel like a sleepless mom, but your imagination has been sleeping if you have ever been to a place where you felt stuck and unsure of how to approach a challenge in your life. If you have ever felt that way, example that your imagination has been sleeping. And so in my book, I give you a three step process that you can use to reawaken, play with, and stretch your imagination. So that this way you can come up with the fertile ideas, the productive ideas to really solve things in your life, in your business, in your world. 

00:08:06 Melissa: I mean, some of the individuals that I interviewed for my book literally have gone on to solve challenges in the world. As an example, Asha Curran, she is the CEO of Giving Tuesday. And I would say, you know, being able to bring in over a billion dollars in a day is absolutely mind blowing, especially when it’s all about generosity and it’s all about bringing together a group of individuals that really want to lock arms in terms of a particular mission, which is again, spreading the idea of generosity.

00:08:41 Melissa: That is how big we can think when we have a fertile imagination. And so in today’s conversation, Tami gives you a sense of what her fertile imagination has done in terms of fair play. And I hope that I also support you in this episode and share with you what’s really on my mind and why I have personally found it a little difficult to start in that direction, right? And sink in a more fertile or productive manner on how household duties might be divided. 

00:09:14 Melissa: And so I invite you to the conversation, invite you to a free chapter of my book, go to fertileideas.com. fertileideas.com. Enjoy the conversation. They happen every single Tuesday. And I would love for you to catch the next one. 

00:09:27 Melissa: Hello, Tami Hackbarth. I am so excited to have you on Unimaginable Wellness. How are you over there in California?

00:09:36 Tami: I am fantastic. I’m super happy to be here with you. How are you?

00:09:43 Melissa: So good, so good. Had an amazing conversation with a fellow podcaster. No clue who that is, Tami. So Tami, enough with the jokes. What is this, a podcast between two mom podcasters? Yes, it is. So Tami, I am so excited to introduce you to my community because you are bringing the goods. I mean, when it comes to guilt-free self-care, I think it’s the whole guilt-free piece of it that a lot of mom founders struggle with because if you have your own business, technically every second of the day that you’re not with your kids, you could technically spend building your business. 

00:10:29 Melissa: And so there is where a lot of guilt might come into play. And so I wanted to just bring you here so that we could have that conversation, Tami. I wanna know everything and more about fair play, about self care and how we could feel less guilty about doing anything other than building our business and nurturing our families. 

00:10:52 Tami: All right, well, let’s start with we cannot give what we don’t have and our kids suck at doing what we say, they only do what we do. So if we want our kids to be full-fledged functioning, feeling well mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually, we actually have to show them how to do that. And if we want to raise kids that have equity in mind, about in the bigger world, but also at work and at home, we have to show them that as well. So I started coaching people around self-care because that is the thing that I really struggled with. I used to go, go, go, work around the clock and then get really sick and then rest until I was just able to get out of bed in the morning and then start it all over. 

00:12:00 Tami: And it was this pattern and I kept thinking, is my life going to be a series of work myself until I can’t work and then get up and then sort of stumble through that? And the answer was yes, unless I did something different. And I was a third grade teacher at the time. And I loved being a teacher, Melissa, nine year old coworkers. So amazing. So amazing. So fun. It was interesting. It was creative. It was fun. I felt really called. I was like, oh my God, this is exactly what I was meant to do. And I was in that mindset of, if I don’t give them everything, how will they ever be able to succeed? And it was really bumming me out. 

00:12:50 Tami: It was making me sick. It was making me be less of a good teacher. It was making me be less of a good leader, because that’s really what a teacher is, it was, it was making me kind of an emotional mess. And that was reflected in, because we’re all moms here, right? So when you’re in a bad mood, and you present your bad mood to your kids, what do you get in response? 

00:13:15 Melissa: Yeah, bad mood. 

00:13:17 Tami: A bad mood. When they come to you, crabby, disrespectful, overwhelmed. If we’re not really resourced, we meet them where they are, right? So there’s this whole mirroring thing that happens. So that’s why when I was confronted by my principal, when he said, are you happy being a teacher? And I responded by like ugly crying and saying, of course I’m not happy, I’m a teacher. He was like, you need to get it together. And I said, you know what, you’re right.

00:13:54 Tami: And I had this martyr moment where I was like, oh, if he doesn’t see how hard I’m working, if he doesn’t see how dedicated I am, we’ll forget him. I decided I’m gonna work to rule, which means I was gonna just work my contract hours. And that of course freed up a bunch of time. I didn’t have kids yet and I thought, okay, what could I do with my time? And I decided to take on this experiment for my life, which was what would happen in my life if I did all the recommended things. If I moved my body for 150 minutes a week, what would I, what would change?

00:14:31 Tami: If I slept eight hours a night, what would change? If I made home-cooked meals, what would change? If I meditated, what would change? And I took on this giant experiment. And I’m happy to report that when I took on all of the things that are constantly recommended, I felt so much better. And when I felt so much better, my work was so much better. My students were so much better off. And not only that, I felt better, I taught better. They learned better, they performed better. I was like, this has gotta be a fluke. So I did it again the next year and I was like, hold on, let me see. 

00:15:12 Tami: Now I have this, I had a different group of kids. And I thought, well, maybe that was a fluke, maybe it was just that group. What happens if I kept up all that self care, kept those hours, so I was doing time boundaries, right? I was putting parameters around when I worked to give myself the opportunity to see if I poured into myself what would happen. And it kept happening year after year that when I took care of myself, every single person in my atmosphere, my students, the other teachers, my home life, everything got easier. Everything got better because I wasn’t overwhelmed. I wasn’t burnt out. And I thought, oh my God, I’m onto something here.

00:15:57 Tami: So now fast forward a decade, I did become a mom and I still do that because now I’m in the business of, now I have somebody living in my home going, what does it mean to be a grownup? Right? What is, what, I’m her primary… a person that she’s gonna look at to like, what does it mean to be a woman in the United States? Is that person gonna be somebody who works all the time? Or is that gonna be somebody who takes on all the household responsibility? Is that gonna be a person who has an equitable partner at home? What is their role in income? What is their role in running a household? 

00:16:40 Tami: And my 13 year old, I can say, I would trade places with her right now because I’ve set up my life in the way that I have time to take care of my body. I have time for my hobbies. I have time for my relationship. I have time for my friends. I have time and energy and excitement and clarity to build my business because of the fuel that I put in, which is my self-care. 

00:17:08 Melissa: Yeah. And I think it shows because it’s like, when we met, for example, at Mom 2.0, like, you know, a lot of us, of course, you know, had to do quite a bit just to set ourselves up for success, to leave our respective homes and hop on planes and go to conferences. And I would even venture to guess that a lot of us were extra tired. But, I noticed in you, you still had a little bit of like, hey! Where’s the party? Let’s go and have a bite and let’s hang out, get to know each other. And I appreciated that about you, which is why you’re here too, because you’re cool, FYI, cool people get to be on podcasts. 

00:17:57 Melissa: But it was something that I was like, you know what? It makes sense that this is part of the work that you do and you put out in the world. And I think… I think that’s something that’s so… it’s so fascinating to me because I’m thinking like, you know, the days of like my mom, for example, I cannot say that that concept of like fair play, like first she was a single mom. So like, what is it? Her and me, number one, which it was, I remember Saturday morning cleaning. But at the same time, it was just something that was never heard of, right? Like I had never heard of this idea of fair play.

00:18:34 Melissa: And I’m just wondering because that’s another reason why you’re here, because I love the fact that you’re one of those special, like, specially trained Fair Play facilitators out there in the world. But like, what is this idea of Fair Play and how can that help us then be able to have guilt free self care? Like, what’s the connection between the two? 

00:18:58 Tami: So for those of you that have not yet heard about Fair Play, it is a book that was written by a woman named Eve Rotsky. It was published in 2019. And you might think, wow, that’s not that long ago. Why, like, did you figure this all out just in the last few years? The answer is no. It turns out that Eve and I, I just recently had her on my podcast, and I said, hey, when were you really feeling the, oh my God, it turns out I’m doing everything at home. I kind of don’t like my husband anymore, and this isn’t what I signed up for why I’m in charge of everything and being a grownup kind of sucks. And she said, fall of 2011, I was like, oh girl, be quiet, because that is exactly when I became a mom and what happened. So when I went from being a teacher married to a teacher, everything was easy breezy, right? 

00:19:53 Tami: We split the chores, we split the bills, we split. It was seamless because we were two grownups who were wanting. We had the conversation about. We want us to both be grownups and handle our business. And our business is we all pitch in to do everything around the house, right? He was raised by a single mom. He was like, nobody should have to do this alone. I was raised as a girl and I was like, it’s not fair that women have to do everything. So I’m not gonna be involved with somebody that doesn’t also believe in equity in the home.

00:20:29 Tami: But man, when you enter that third player, when you bring a baby into your world, suddenly everything goes out the window. Everybody’s tired. One person, you know, you’re either figuring out daycare, which is super expensive, or one of you is staying home to make sure this baby makes it through babyhood. And that’s what happened with us. And it just, all of the family responsibilities slowly started falling on my plate. And it was because everything was unsaid.

00:20:59 Tami: And I was so mad. I was like, there has to be a name for the thing that I’m experiencing. And so I Googled how not to hate. And I kid you not, your husband came up in Google and it turned out there’s this thing, it’s called domestic labor. It’s all the jobs that hold up the organization of your home. It is from elder care to enrolling your kids in school, to feeding them, clothing them, all of the things. So Fair Play has been made into kind of, it’s a game that you and your partner play where the very first thing you do is you get the fair play cards. And I call these the adulting cards. They tell you basically everything you need to be doing as an adult. And you go through the cards and you talk to your person and you say, there’s a hundred cars now that we have kids. How many of these can we get rid of because we don’t care about these things? Right. And you start going, I don’t care about thank you cards anymore because I don’t want to do them. I don’t care about this thing. Right. 

00:22:07 Tami: And then once you get your deck, you say, okay, how are we going to split this up so that every job that we’ve deemed important can get done in a way that works for all of us. I wish everyone could see your face right now. You have a question for me. So let me say it right now. Fair Play is all about rebalancing the domestic labor in your home. And we do it through communication and using these cards and this idea that we work together as a team to tackle the house rather than us fighting each other about the things that aren’t being done or are only being done by one person.  And everything that you’re saying makes sense. It’s so funny because it kind of smells a little bit of like a scorecard, which I was told in a relationship we shouldn’t be like taking. Go ahead. 

00:23:07 Tami: You know what, I love that you asked that question and you made that observation because I think at first blush, I think a lot of people do think of fair play as like, I do this, you do that tit for tat. Now we’re fighting against each other. And what’s funny is if you read in Fair Play, if you read about how fair play came to be is because Eve gave her husband a list that said, shit I do. And he did not receive that in a way that was helpful. He was like, congratulations. I also do a lot of stuff. And she was like, okay, now we’re at a standstill. So what do we do then? Right?

00:23:47 Tami: Because we’re all doing things that nobody in our family notices. Right? Your spouse is doing stuff. And just because they are not throwing a parade about the fact that they are doing X, Y, Z, you probably don’t notice because it’s just done. That’s the thing about a lot of the things that happen in our domestic lives. They’re invisible because somebody’s taking care of them. Kids think everything is magical, right? You go to the bank and they just give you money. And you’re like, let me tell you someday about how banks get the money so that I can get my own money back from them, right? 

00:24:24 Tami: And so Fair Play is a way for us to make the invisible work of being in a family very visible to everybody that’s in the family. And I think that a lot of people play the Fair Play game. Not they play it with just the grownups. And because my background isn’t teaching little kids, and I also used to be a lobbyist, that I am really good at breaking down bigger ideas into actionable items. And I’m also really good at getting people who are resistant to do things they don’t necessarily want to do. 

00:25:07 Tami: So, part of the way that I get everybody on the same team is we start having family meetings. We start talking about what’s important to us. We create the humanity behind the task. It’s less about chores and more about how can we take care of each other in a way that everybody in the family gets to thrive. Everybody gets self-care in fair play because it’s built into Fair Play. Two of these cards say, self-care, player one, self-care, player two. There’s an adult friendship card, player one, adult friendship card, player two. And then the last thing that you get in fair play that so many of us have forgotten is this thing that’s been dubbed unicorn space. 

00:26:05 Tami:  And unicorn space is three to five hours a week to do the activities that make you interesting, funny, feel like yourself. It’s all that stuff that maybe you gave up once you became a parent or once you got into your profession. And I always lead with, wouldn’t it be great if we all had the time and resources to do the things that make us datable to our spouses, interesting at dinner parties? Fun to be around. And then we talk about, but how do we make that happen? We have to work together as a team so that we can make sure that our household stuff is taken care of. Because, you know, we’re all grownups here. And you’re like, but my kid’s not a grownup. I know, but they will be someday. And we should teach them now how to take care of their business so that we’re not always taking care of their business.

00:27:07 Melissa: Yeah, I think that’s a huge piece of it. It’s not just like what you’re looking at right now, you know, like a nine-year-old, but also like an anticipation of the fact that they’re gonna be a fully-fledged human at some point. So I’m gonna invite you to a challenge, Tami, because this is where I’m at, and this is where I suspect a lot of the listeners are at. So, okay, let’s imagine, let’s pretend it’s Mother’s Day, and let’s just imagine this thought. This is what I intend to do. Like I’m literally revealing what I’m gonna do on Mother’s Day or my birthday, honestly. 

00:27:44 Melissa: I plan to just leave my house. Like I’m not gonna cook before, I’m not gonna tell people where I’m going, I am not picking up my cell phone or you know, responding to texts. I just wanna enter a house where the Fair Play method has already been implemented. So like if anyone wants to know what does Melissa want for her birthday or Mother’s Day, both of which are in May, that would be amazing. So let me ask you, because I feel like that feels like a pipe dream. I’m being honest here. Like it feels like a pipe dream for me in the sense that. 

00:28:22 Melissa: So let’s imagine that we get the Fair Play cards and we have you as a facilitator and all that jazz. Why is it that it has to be on my list of shit to do to even have this idea of Fair Play? And why do I have to then make sure that the cards get bought and then we hire the facilitator? I’m not trying to add more on my plate. So is there a way where we can plant the seed right now in case any man is listening and help some fully fledged adults person say to themselves, you know what? My wife shouldn’t have to figure this out. Like, I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna not just get the cards but implement the cards and hire the facilitator and this is gonna be on my list of shit to do.

00:29:16 Tami: I could not love this question more. So I wanna start with Mother’s Day and your birthday. You’re like, I just wanna be out. I wanna be doing my thing. I would like to enjoy a meal where no one’s complaining. I would like to not be asked where anything is. I would like to be uninterrupted perhaps with a friend. Maybe, maybe like having a massage, maybe any of these experiences. And I would like to know that my children and my partner are 100% okay without me. 

00:29:51 Melissa: And I’m not gonna come back to a messy house that looks like a crazy time.

00:29:56 Tami: Oh my God, somebody mentioned that. Okay, so a couple of things. One, one is, so you said this sounds like a pipe dream. 

00:30:04 Melissa: Yes. 

00:30:06 Tami: Okay, I’m letting you know. I’m gonna give you an example from my own life, okay? My husband is a teacher. Last summer, we had a 12 year old daughter. Pre-teen girls is next level parenting, y’all. If you don’t have one of these creatures, I don’t know what to tell you, but I feel like we went to upper division college, maybe grad school for pre-teen girl parenting. It’s a thing. So last January, I said to my spouse, I’m the primary parent during the school year because you’re at school during the same hour she’s at school. So I got that handled. But y’all have exactly the same days off. 

00:30:45 Tami: You are going to need to either hang out with her during the entire summer, or you can figure out the camp thing. Let me know what you need from me. And we sat down and so we did, we had a Fair Play conversation because there is a fair play card called childcare, childcare summer, childcare school break. Right, we sat down. There’s three parts, conception, planning, execution. Conception is where you talk about your stories. My husband and I, we talked about our experience during summer break.

00:31:23 Tami: We talked about growing up. I was like, it was cold. My parents went to work. He’s like same, because we grew up in the same town during the same era. So we were like, we were latchkey kids growing up. So summer break was boring. It was long and we didn’t have anything to do. And we were like, what’s important for us? What are our values around how our child spends her summer? And we were like, we want her to be engaged. We want her to be active. We want her to have fun. Have we want her not to be looking at us to be the camp director at our home, in our face all freaking day long. 

00:31:58 Tami: And so we were like, got it. And I said, what else do you need from me? He’s like, I think I’m good. I was like, terrific. Then during the planning stage, he went and he talked to my daughter. He’s like, what kind of camps do you wanna do? She said, I don’t know what’s available. They did the research together. They came up with possibilities. He booked all the camps. He filled out all the forms. He paid for it. He did transportation. He did the doctor’s visit. He did all of it. All of it. 

00:32:34 Tami: One time during the summer, my daughter said, I don’t know why he’s not listening to me. I don’t wanna do that theater thing, but he keeps signing me up for it. And I said, well, you guys need to talk about it. And so she went to him. She said, Papa, I don’t wanna do that one. Can we figure out something else? And he said, but I already booked it. And then he came to me and he’s like, but I already booked it. I was like, do you wanna be in the presence of a 12 year old girl for a week that hates the thing that you’re paying good money for or do you just wanna change your plan? 

00:33:06 Tami: He was like, I forgot who I was dealing with. I’m gonna go ahead and change that plan. And I said, that’s how I would do it. And he said, terrific. And you know what, Melissa? We had a terrific summer because we have those conversations and the conversation was, this has to be done, it has to be done in a timely way. I didn’t say I’ve done it all this time, I said, it’s your turn with the card. And he said, you’re right, right? And then we decided what was important, we explained our values, we created the sense of, yeah, that kind of sucked, what kind of summer do we want? 

00:33:47 Tami: What are the stories that we want her when she goes to college, sitting around in their dorm room, and it’s like, what did you guys do during the summer? Our child can say, oh, my dad brought me to summer camp. Oh, he did this thing. You know what I mean? Like we very much operate in the, when she looks back at her childhood, what do we want her to say? And we want her to say, I had fun in the summer. They put a lot of effort into it. They were weirdos and had big conversations about it all the time but I felt like they had it together. 

00:34:22 Tami: So is it a pipe dream? Maybe four people write this second because they’re like, I didn’t even know that was possible. But when you use the Fair Play method and you use the cards, it’s really about communication. What is important to our family? How do we translate those values into action? And then how do we make sure that the grownups are like, I got this part, you got this part, and we’re working together as a team to solve the, oh my God, what do we do with a 12 year old preteen girl in the summer? We don’t want her here for 10 weeks, right? 

00:34:57 Tami: But you do the same thing for laundry. You do the same thing for dishes. You do the same thing for elder care. Mostly it’s about people coming together to solve problems as a team, instead of, well, I did this, you should have to do that. That doesn’t feel good. And also it doesn’t work, right? So on the question of, and I hear this with every single client, why should I take this on? Because I’m already doing all of the things. Gather around friends, gather around. We are in a group hug right now. And the answer is, because you want to change. 

00:35:52 Tami: Your family does not see what you are doing because you’re so good at it. It is invisible to them. All you have to do is ask your people, where do we buy the sheets? Zero people in your house will know where you bought the sheets for the beds. Where do we buy towels? When was the last time we bought towels? Because everyone in your house is like, the blanket sheet, toilet paper, toothpaste fairy came. And you’re like, honey, that’s me. And they’re like, what? No way. Yeah, I’m the supply chain. I’m the procurement station. I am the delivery system. I made the money to buy the things. They do not see it because they have no idea what goes into it.

00:36:41 Tami: If you say to anyone in your house, go do the laundry, in your mind, you know how to do it. You know there’s the 45 steps of doing laundry, right? But if you say to your child, go do your laundry, they will look at you like, I don’t even know what that is. Because when you think about it, you’re like, why is it called laundry, but these are clothes. When did clothes turn into laundry? And how do I… Why is laundry going into a washing machine? We just have to pretend like we’re all starting at the basics and being like, let’s all pull our heads together. 

00:37:19 Tami: Let me impart this knowledge on you. Recently, a friend asked on Facebook, she has four kids and a husband. She said, is there a right way to load a dishwasher? I’m gonna tell you, you already know this, the internet has opinions about dishwasher loading. This is what I’m gonna tell you. My answer to my friend was, is there a right way to load a dishwasher? I said, yes, if you want to be the one that washes every single dish in your house for the rest of your life. 

00:37:53 Tami: So the reason, whoever is maddest about the thing, right? So whoever is like, you know what? I feel like I’ve been hogging all the good jobs of laundry and meals and practices, I’ve been, I’ve been hogging all this work. I would like to spread the joy amongst all of my family. If we don’t tell them, they will never know. I don’t think, honestly, I don’t think it’s malicious because what, for the most part, what are the two things that men and boys are taught to be as they grow up? 

00:38:29 Melissa: Providers. Yeah.

00:38:31 Tami: And providers. That’s it. So they’re like, I’m providing, what is your problem? I’m protecting, what is your problem? And you’re like, oh my God, no one ever sat you down and said, this is how toilet paper gets into our house. Because they grew up with a toilet paper fairy called their mom or their grandmom. Right? And it’s like, sure, at some point you might be like this. There’s a lot of talk again about webinars in competence. He’s just, he’s not doing the thing. It’s like, well, he’s not doing it the way you’re doing it. So you have this fantasy of being like, I want to go out, do my thing for my birthday, be left alone as if I’m in a submarine, like they cannot get to me. 

00:39:21 Melissa: That’s terrific. 

00:39:23 Tami: Then you also said, I would like to come home and the house is not a complete and utter wreck. 

00:39:30 Melissa: Yes.

00:39:34 Tami: Yes. So let’s backpedal from that. How do we get that part? We work on what is our minimum standard of care, right? So when we could just have that conversation with our spouse, honey, have you ever noticed what the house looks like when you come home after playing basketball with your friends and they will go, no. You’re like, you’re right. Because again, lots of invisible things happen. It’s weird. The kids ate meals that you didn’t see. Maybe they took a bath. Maybe they did some chores. I know you didn’t see any of that, so it didn’t exist. 

00:40:06 Tami: But when they stay home, they’re like, woman, did you know that I kept these children from killing each other while you were gone? Did you know that I had to do all this wrangling to get them to do the homework? And you’re like, I know, honey. Right? Maybe they don’t have the same skill set that you have developed over time because you’re quote, better at it. Honey, and the only reason I’m better at stuff is because I had to practice. And a lot of times when I’m working with families, I start with the kids. I say, you know what we’re going to do? We’re going to teach our kids grownup move out skills. And when you’re a nine year old becomes the most proficient person in your house at doing laundry. Your grown spouse can no longer say, I don’t know how to do that. It’s like, well ask Jimmy, cause he’ll teach you, cause I taught him. 

00:41:01 Melissa: Yeah. And I love that because I think it’s what I’m hearing from you to really just maybe send listeners to their best next step or even their best next family meeting topic. What I’m hearing from you and what I think I’m getting is that, for example, like a lot of us might share little parts of different chores with our kids, but what I’m hearing from you is a bit more about full ownership of every single step of a particular chore so that the mental bandwidth of the mom, as an example is actually truly alleviated versus just piecemealed and band aid. And so here’s my question to you. I’m thinking about my reality and maybe the reality of some of the listeners.

00:42:03 Melissa: Let’s just imagine that we’re starting from a place where having a conversation with your partner about something that you never witnessed anyone having a conversation about, like your mom just did it, you know, and she did it and maybe she had a smile on her face while she was doing it. I don’t know, who to a place… 

00:42:25 Tami: Exactly. A lot of moms did have a smile on their face. 

00:42:28 Melissa: Yeah. 

00:42:29 Tami: And then give her a cocktail and then that changes. But… 

00:42:31 Melissa: Right. Mommy juice, right? Or whatever they call it. But then like, that’s the starting place to now, to now like, okay, I have to sit my partner down and have a conversation about something that has never been questioned before. How do you get ready for that conversation and just give us like a starting line so that this way we could end with an action item? 

00:42:56 Tami: Okay, there is a documentary called Fair Play and it’s on Hulu and it’s available also through some of library systems. First step, watch it by yourself. Whoever is mad about the distribution of labor in your house, watch it by yourself so you can have some feelings. Because in the documentary, Eve explains the whole system. And they also have five couples that they’re following that are learning how to use Fair Play and all the fun that ensues with those couples. So you can watch how real families are interacting with the method and you can see the research behind it.

00:43:44 Tami: So listener, watch the Fair Play documentary. And then after you watch the Fair Play documentary, you might need to journal some things out and then invite your spouse and say, oh my God, I heard about this documentary. I watched it. Watch it together or have them watch it and say, what did you think? And be curious. Be curious because remember, most of us entered into this partnership because we love this person and they love us. And working together to solve problems as a team is what’s gonna keep us together.

00:44:24 Tami: And I think when we look at like, what’s gonna be some actions that we can take together to help build our relationship together is a good way to go into this. Again, it’s not… it doesn’t have to be combative. It doesn’t. It can be a simple invitation of, honey, I saw this thing. I wanna know what you think. 

00:44:46 Melissa: That’s so useful because it’s like, it exposes your partner to the full breadth of these invisible things that now have been captured on film and articulated by different families with very different circumstances, I imagine. And so Tami, let’s just say, you know, Mother’s Day gifts, you know, that kind of stuff. Where can anyone who’s listening learn more about you and maybe give a mom in their life the gift of a fair play facilitator? So help us. 

00:45:30 Tami: Okay, so you can find me on my website at tamihackbarth.com and on my website, I actually have a three hour workshop and it’s the three different days and it’s about reducing the mental load. And you may be like, oh my God, I’m learning all this vocabulary. What’s the mental load? The mental load is all the thinking. So the mental load for the toilet paper goes like this. Do we have enough toilet paper? Where’s the extra? Do we have toilet paper in both the bathrooms? What kind of toilet paper do we get again?

00:46:04 Tami: What was that one that clogged up the septic system? Where can I get toilet paper for this? What do they do about it? It’s the stuff that keeps you up in the middle of the night. It’s not just about toilet paper. It’s the thoughts about the toilet paper, which are leaving you with decision fatigue. It’s the thing that’s overwhelming you, because you’re like, did I just spend all this time in the middle of the night thinking about bringing toilet paper into my home? Like the toilet paper fairy, so my family would never know. Like, if this is the thing your family has never had, they’ve never lived without toilet paper because you’ve been in the toilet paper fairy.

00:46:44 Tami: And you’re, again, so good at the management of the toilet paper, and you’re like, oh my God, I have decision fatigue, and now I can’t run my business effectively because I don’t have enough bandwidth. So come over to the website, grab that little training, because it’s three days. It explains the cards. It explains unicorn space. And you also get the first two lessons in my group coaching program. And it’s like, I just cut them out and I put them in this challenge for free because I want you to get a taste of what it’s like to practice guilt-free self-care. 

00:47:22 Melissa: Thank you, Tami. This was awesome. 

00:47:26 Tami: Thank you.

00:47:27 Melissa: Hello there. So in reflection, this is what I would love to just kind of remind you of in terms of the conversation with Tami and myself. So the first point is what Tami says. She says, if we want our kids to be full fledged, functioning well, feeling well, mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually adults, then we have to actually show them how to do that. And I think that is something worthy of contemplation as someone who is becoming a meditation practitioner, that is a form of meditation that you can take to the bank. Really think that through. 

00:48:02 Melissa: What do you want for your children and how can you show them what that looks like right now? And that might be by implementing the Fair Play method in your home this summer. The second point is this. So summer and school breaks. They don’t have to break you, a mom, and they don’t have to just fall on your shoulders either. And I think Tami shares a wonderful example of how her partner is really helping with the summer months.

00:48:31 Melissa: The third one is this, we can start this conversation today. Literally go to Hulu and get the documentary, the Fair Play documentary, watch it first, just as Tami suggested, and then invite your partner for the next showing. You could set it up with popcorn if you so desire, but I think it’s really important that, you know, having a tool like a documentary to just inspire a conversation is a good next step. So please share this with any other mom that you feel would really, really benefit in terms of having some 100% guilt-free self-care moments and, you know, days, seconds, milliseconds. And let me know how Tami’s ideas work for you.

00:49:18 Melissa: Be sure to reach out to me. I’m on Instagram @melissallarena. I am also here, right here in YouTube. If you’re watching the video, I really would enjoy seeing your comments if you have any sort of thoughts on what you just heard. And for sure, stay tuned until next Tuesday. I appreciate you and I really hope that your business is thriving and that your family life is also thriving as well. I think they can both happen but it does take quite the imagination.